Author Topic: Weapons with skill bonuses  (Read 10023 times)

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Offline thelordashoka

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 07:55:46 AM »
"When the skill bonus is +1 and you have not the skill then the skill is ineffective, it should be +2 to work as +1 real skill if it's not from your class.


@crassus said he is not 100% sure about how this skill bonus works:

I can confirm one thing...that skill bonus works even if its not from your own class and its only +1
Live example: I(Ranger) use sword with crushing blow and it works fine in every fight.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 07:57:39 AM by thelordashoka »

Crassus

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 11:18:17 AM »
Thank god i found my private conversation with Judith & Cuorion about the issue... Of course i post only the relevant to this topic lines :P
" cuorion: Let's say I am a Fury Warrior with Dual Wield
  cuorion: And I got a sword with 2 counterattack and another sword with 4 counterattack
 "Counterattack 4" and "Counterattack 2"
 The exact text
 
Judith: Fury warrior doesn't have counterattack right, so when your weapon gives you +1 to counterattack, you don't get bonus coz   u dont have the skill, if it's as you say counter attack 2, then you will have it like an additional skill, but since you have a counterattack 4, the system will take the higher lvl counterattack - they won't stack
 so, there's no point to have 2 swords that give you counterattack, coz only the one (with higher ct) will count

Crassus:  - they won't stack. Told you :D
 i told you that this is posted somewhere at forum but i was bored to search for it...

Judith: yeah
 i think that dmdm had prob like this beforE

Crassus: yes....

Judith: asked why he doesn't take the skill from his staff

cuorion: Fury warrior doesn't have counterattack right, so when your weapon gives you +1 to counterattack, you don't get bonus coz u dont have the skill.That's why then I did get the bonus from +1 Crushing Blow on my previous weap :) "


And i found the referred topic (http://forum.imperialhero.org/int/index.php?topic=8808.0) but didn't helped too much... So i will go with what Judith said :)

Offline thelordashoka

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 03:00:13 PM »
I understood that from the quote and forum links that:

From the Total Skill bonus you have and the Total Weapon Bonus you have only the highest will be taken.

But If you do not have the skill bonus what ever you get from the Total of Weapon bonus will be take.

Till here it is simple and there is clarity of understanding.

Now the trouble is here

Quote
Judith: Fury warrior doesn't have counterattack right, so when your weapon gives you +1 to counterattack, you don't get bonus coz   u dont have the skill, if it's as you say counter attack 2, then you will have it like an additional skill, but since you have a counterattack 4, the system will take the higher lvl counterattack - they won't stack
 so, there's no point to have 2 swords that give you counterattack, coz only the one (with higher ct) will count

According to what Judith is saying in the quote the bold part that if any weapon gives only +1 there is no bonus.
But My hero has one handed sword with 1 crushing blow and I as a ranger does not have that skill. So now if we go by what Judith said my hero should not get/use/perform crushing blow but he is doing it.

So I think there is some contradiction on this part some moderators or programmers have to clarify and answer these questions.

My question is if Judith's quote is correct then why does my hero perform crushing blow.
 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 03:03:20 PM by thelordashoka »

Crassus

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2010, 03:42:51 PM »
The text is copy paste from my skype's conversation history (took me much time to find it...)
And it's absolutely correct. But this conversation was made at middle June. Since the last month things have changed, or simply you have bug... Thus i will wait until another mod/programmer see the topic and verify if things are changed or you have a bug...

Cuorion

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2010, 06:18:52 PM »
The problem in my opinion is in the battle mechanics themselves. When a hero battles, the game checks which skills he has acquired and which he has not, so it can use only the acquired ones. I believe that when a hero has 0 skill points allocated on a skill, that skill is flagged as "non-useable" by the game. Otherwise, every time you would for example dodge an attack, even without any points on retaliate, the game would have to roll a dice with 0% chance to use the skill, which is practically same as not rolling at all but would make the code bigger and slower to run.

You as a Ghost Stalker would have something like this (skill points allocated randomly for the example):

Poison - 0 - Non-usable
Herbal Knowledge - 0 - Non-usable
Critical Hit - 7 - Usable
Mercenary Captain - 5 - Usable
Dagger Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Javelin Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Throwing Knives Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Shield Mastery - 4 - Usable
Dual Wield - 0 - Non-usable
Ignore Armor - 0 - Non-usable
Evade - 2 - Usable
Stealth - 2 - Usable
Retaliate - 3 - Usable
Ambush - 0 - Non-usable
Blind - 1 - Usable

Now if this is correct, when you equip an item with a skill you don't normally own, that skill is added in your skills list in the level the bonus indicates. Thus, when you had Crushing Blow 1, your skills list changed to this:

Poison - 0 - Non-usable
Herbal Knowledge - 0 - Non-usable
Critical Hit - 7 - Usable
Mercenary Captain - 5 - Usable
Dagger Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Javelin Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Throwing Knives Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Shield Mastery - 4 - Usable
Dual Wield - 0 - Non-usable
Ignore Armor - 0 - Non-usable
Evade - 2 - Usable
Stealth - 2 - Usable
Retaliate - 3 - Usable
Ambush - 0 - Non-usable
Blind - 1 - Usable
Crushing Blow - 1 - Usable

It's also stated correctly, that skill levels on the same skill don't stack, either they are allocated skill points or item bonuses. For example, if you had an item with Retaliate 2, it would have no effect on my example's skills list, since you would instead use your Retaliate 3. However, there seems to be a problem when an item gives bonus to a non-acquired class skill. In your example, you got an item with "Ambush 4". The game compares the item's "Ambush 4" and the hero's "Ambush 0", picks the item's bonus, but does not remove the "Non-usable" tag. Your skills list would now be like that:

Poison - 0 - Non-usable
Herbal Knowledge - 0 - Non-usable
Critical Hit - 7 - Usable
Mercenary Captain - 5 - Usable
Dagger Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Javelin Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Throwing Knives Mastery - 0 - Non-usable
Shield Mastery - 4 - Usable
Dual Wield - 0 - Non-usable
Ignore Armor - 0 - Non-usable
Evade - 2 - Usable
Stealth - 2 - Usable
Retaliate - 3 - Usable
Ambush - 4 - Non-usable
Blind - 1 - Usable

This theory would explain all the facts we got, but it would be a bug instead of a feature and would need to be fixed.
Note that it's only a theory though, and could be totally inaccurate. We'd have to either test it*, or ask for a CM to test it.

*If my theory is correct, putting 1 skill point in Ambush would remove the "Non-usable" tag, the Ambush 4 item skill would still be picked as better and the skill would work at level 4 as intented.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 06:21:17 PM by Cuorion »

Offline thelordashoka

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2010, 07:19:23 PM »
Thank you Cuorion that information brings some clarity.

Crassus

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2010, 08:44:45 PM »
Well the Cuorion's posts is logically selection for a programmer... BUT I had a shield bash bonus to a shield (class skill), without having any points to the skill itself and i was able to perform that kind of attack.

I am 80% sure there is a bug here... and I will notify a CM about this topic, to understand what is going on...

Note: This skill is performed every time the enemy blocks your attack and there is no way to be avoided...

Cuorion

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2010, 09:47:56 PM »
Then maybe it's a bug to certain probability skills? Because now that I think of it, I don't think I've actually seen my Poison item skill being used any time...
Or maybe some skills don't stack with other skills and there's no bug. ???
Oh nuts, I'm confused. :D

Offline thelordashoka

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2010, 09:55:56 PM »
LOL.........what the heck.......bug or no bug.......we just got to enjoy the game......

Crassus

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2010, 11:54:43 AM »
LOL.........what the heck.......bug or no bug.......we just got to enjoy the game......

This we are doing it for sure :D
We simple want the proper people see if it works as it should be and not to find out all about the game mechanics... 8)

Sheremetev

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2010, 12:41:35 PM »
We enjoy the game in every aspect, including theoretising on bugs.

Cuorion

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2010, 02:10:35 PM »
We enjoy the game in every aspect, including theoretising on bugs.

Indeed, indeed. :D

Offline Sanosama

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Re: Weapons with skill bonuses
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2010, 05:41:22 PM »
Well thanks for all the help guys I hope this gets fixed I can't afford the 50 diamonds to test Cuorion's theory myself and I would hate to lose out on my weapons bonus just because of a bug.