Author Topic: ok, seriously now...  (Read 32334 times)

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Offline Hiske

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2009, 06:20:02 PM »
You obviously don't get my point, Isolde.
We have to balance the gameplay in a way that there will be no guilds that would be too powerful, Isolde.
If there can be a player, no matter what guild is he in, (no matter how he got those points) that can make 400 CP in 2 months, that means we have a gameplay problem.
It means we have to balance the game.
We are not punishing anyone.
We are trying to make the game better and enjoyable for all the players.
If there are players that can beat our gameplay... This should be a matter for concern, not a matter for bragging.

I believe you are right; there might be a gameplay problem... but it's not our fault we try to run the guild as best as possible! we didn't abuse bugs or anything like that so I think you should be grateful that we're showing it this way in beta... maybe one of the admins should join us to see how the guild works to help balance the game more... beta is meant to test the game in all it's aspects, right? so how can you say that we are ruining the game for others? we're just showing how great a guild can get in 2 months... we're an example for other guilds cause they'll try to get better as well... if we were not playing as well as we do now; you guys have not been able to see the disbalance in the game... so instead of accusing us, I think you should be a little more happy with us...  :-*

Offline Numpty

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2009, 11:22:23 PM »
And... because of the lack of this... distraction, there were people that made 400 CP in Crafting Tier 3 for 2 months of game time.
Establishing a monopoly and dictating the crafting gameplay.
We are even thinking about cutting the crafting chances in half, because a disciplined guild has managed to ruin all the gameplay in 2 months... what are we going to do when we have 40 000 players trying to do that?
This game is the most complex project we have started so far.
There are a hundred more things that must be balanced, compared to IO, GI and GW.
And... the moment we allow one player to gain a significant advantage over others by exploiting a rule or a bug we didn't think of, is the moment we will lose all our players.
Because they will not feel equal in this world.

It must be clear that our desire is to make the game both as much hard as it is balanced.
The mobs will get stronger.
The crafting will get tougher.
There will be more and more restrictions.
Team play will be more and more encouraged.
And the players will struggle for each crafting or experience point.
Only this way, we presume, we will be able to make it enough entertaining and playable for a long period of time.
Unbalancing or taking advantage of something that is not well developed will ruin everyone's fun.
Same goes for playing a game in which you can have it all in 2 months and then go some place else.



You obviously don't get my point, Isolde.
We have to balance the gameplay in a way that there will be no guilds that would be too powerful, Isolde.
If there can be a player, no matter what guild is he in, (no matter how he got those points) that can make 400 CP in 2 months, that means we have a gameplay problem.
It means we have to balance the game.
We are not punishing anyone.
We are trying to make the game better and enjoyable for all the players.
If there are players that can beat our gameplay... This should be a matter for concern, not a matter for bragging.


is this or is this not a beta?  this isnt the real game, we are accelerating the final outcome of the game by reaching limits quicker than you had forseen.  is this bad in a beta? 
you can change the gameplay as much as you want cause someone else will just find a way to accelerate that also.  start with making higher level guild administration way more expensive.  either that or the game will be so slow people will lose interest cause it will be years and years before achieving the following tier and if your target audience is 12-17 year olds, attention is difficult for prolonged periods of time.
to slow the game down more you would need to allow 168 aps to accumulate or so, cause logging in every 48 hours to make sure i dont lose ap is fairly unbalanced if the objective is to slow down the game, but there will always be a group of people willing to work together to exceed your expectation, human nature.   
what we are doing by being organized is getting faster than expected to where everyone will get sooner or later in a beta.  once we are tier 5, i would imagine all the effort put in will reduce significantly as i am unaware of anyone who wants to actually spend 5 years of their lives playing one realm in one game, but the internet brings out the crazy in people. 

One question comes to mind, you state, "Team play will be more and more encouraged." yet you blame for ruining the game a group of 30 people that do just that, play real well together and use basic economic strategies, such as specialized skills and production, to achieve things faster.  It is unjust to make this statement, nothing illegal is being done, perhaps
I do not think much slower than atm would be reasonable for an audience that you are targeting, fix the easy things...
i think there are real easy ways to avoid whats happening atm, real, real easy ways, but rather than ask those who are excelling due to these reasons, it´s easy to accuse a few of ruining the game for others?  that´s called shifting blame...

making the game take longer is understandable monetarily, but if the objective is to make the game more complete, start another realm, make it slower from the start, close beta to new players, but things like this... "Same goes for playing a game in which you can have it all in 2 months and then go some place else." makes me sad as i thought the objective was to acertain whether things work well in this beta realm, not scold anyone for doing what you allow...

besides, someone with money to spend will always be willing to spend more than someone else and you will always have a balancing problem and complaints that they are/he is/she is cheating.  i would think this would be good to a certain extent...

i did not write this to anger anyone or insult anyone (especially Oton, maybe a bit Krum), but i think the solution is so so so easy if the objective is to slow the game down, dont change anything until other, easy things are done first...
i am a jerk, but i´ll sell you rings and amulets!!!!

chegewara

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2009, 01:18:04 AM »
i think you missunderstand Oton. i think he dont want to tell so you ppl from reacro or other guild in beta ruin game but ppl from some guild when full game start can ruin game cause is unbalance yet an making thinks like crafting easy can do more bad for this game. i agree with that. and this is not yours fool but you shown programmers there is unbalance. thanks to reacro game can be "repaired" and in full game ppl can enjoy it playing much longer not only 2-3 months. i think there few ppl had to 50 level experience and other all tiers crafting with 400 CP but that there is only 2 provinces tier 3 opened. noone blame you for that. this is about game balance, thats all.
if im wrong then appologice you all

Offline isolde

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2009, 02:21:14 AM »
i think you missunderstand Oton. i think he dont want to tell so you ppl from reacro or other guild in beta ruin game but ppl from some guild when full game start can ruin game cause is unbalance yet an making thinks like crafting easy can do more bad for this game. i agree with that. and this is not yours fool but you shown programmers there is unbalance. thanks to reacro game can be "repaired" and in full game ppl can enjoy it playing much longer not only 2-3 months. i think there few ppl had to 50 level experience and other all tiers crafting with 400 CP but that there is only 2 provinces tier 3 opened. noone blame you for that. this is about game balance, thats all.
if im wrong then appologice you all

Well the only problem is that crafting is NOT easy and if we can progress faster than other guilds - its because we have put double the effort, time and determination in it and we have better organisation ! Even if they cut the crafting chance - that is still not going to do anything - unless of course he teaches other guilds to be better and play more of the common good and not just for themselves...

I have the right to brag if I am the best at something - it is not as a result of an "imbalance" but of hard work and 24 AP of mining every day and 48 AP of crafting every day. But since I dont think Oton or anyone else plays the game the way I do - to them maybe it seems like something is wrong if a guild can progress much faster than other... The explanation that they work hard for it is I guess not good enough ...

chegewara

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2009, 03:39:57 AM »
i agree that crafting is not easy but i understand its still too easy if in guild which have 25-30 members few of them can progress that fast in 6-8 weeks. now if you multiply this by 20 or more, cause about 100x more players can play this game when start full version, maybe even more, then we have 100-150 crafting masters in 2-3 months. this make new players to chose this way pointless. day before yesterday i craft about 35 bows with rare chance 14,3% and i craft only 2 rare bows but yesterday i craft 3/5. maybe should be for crafting rare, unique and legendary items 2x more CP than normal but 4x less chance to craft it. i understand you all in reacro make perfect work and i know that should look co-work in guild but when you progress fast like that you are complete and you want play no longer in this game or "you" ruin game. when i said you i mean this 100-150 player. after 1 year this can be ven 1000-1500 and if every that player craft 1 specjal item by day that give us lot of items and NPC shops cant be sell items, new players which start crafting cant be sell items in auction etc

Oton

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2009, 09:21:57 AM »
Thank you, Che, finally somebody understands my point.
I'm not here to blame, Isolde, I don't care that it's your guild I'm talking about or somebody else's.
The only think I care about now is to balance the game enough for it to be playable.
And, we don't have to play the game all day like the other players in order to see the processes.
We have software that can create a hero and run it automatically, giving us a detailed info about everything.
Also, we track all the leading players in the game.
Yes, I believe this is a beta phase of the game, that's why I'm trying to work with you guys.
You will try to brake it, I have to make the rules so you don't have a chance to brake it.
This is not a war. This is work.

This is the moment I want to express my deepest gratitude and respect to all the dedicated players, both from Reacro and from the other guilds that helped me remove millions of bugs and stuff.

To be honest, you are all annoying, you all have big mouths and I hate you all.
But if you weren't so annoying and persistent in your attempts to brake my game... we would not have come this far, right?

I won't even start talking about Chegewara...

chegewara

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2009, 03:26:35 PM »
and now you break my heart. if you even dont want to tell what you are thinking about me. you have yours automatic heroes, ok. but why you dont found so many bugs which we found, which i report. how many players check every report and try to figure how it works? how many players spend his own money to buy diamonds and change his hero attributes to check its all ok? check my logs and you will see. in last few days i spend 150-200, maybe more, diamonds to change my hero attributes and check all this things, and you even dont want to tell that all this work which i do is for nothing. fine, i dont need to report any bugs, i dont even need to check if any bug is in game. you have all this automatic heroes which are playing for you. im out. and you know what, kiss my ... mister Oton 8)

Offline radooo

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »
che, I guess you misinterpretated oton's message...he said that he hate us all cause we always complain about bugs...but he said that without us the game wouldn't be as good as it is now. And he hates you the most because you always post bugs (hate but in a good way) :) Your English is not very good to feel oton's humour ;D

chegewara

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2009, 03:44:08 PM »
maybe is enough good or maybe not. i understand more than i can write. and if my english is so bad then why only i understand his point of view few post early? maybe will be better if they will find bugs on his own way, like with diamonds. they finally found this bug and all was happy, players cause have had 5kk diamonds and they buy everything and programmers cause they finally figure what is happening with game 8)

Offline radooo

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2009, 03:50:32 PM »
maybe is enough good or maybe not. i understand more than i can write. and if my english is so bad then why only i understand his point of view few post early? maybe will be better if they will find bugs on his own way, like with diamonds. they finally found this bug and all was happy, players cause have had 5kk diamonds and they buy everything and programmers cause they finally figure what is happening with game 8)

you understood his point because you were the only one that wasn't in reacro...and we in reacro know how hard we worked to do what we did. I know that I used 48 AP per day for a month to reach 400 CP in tier 3...and with a lot of help from my guild...so it wasn't as easy as it seems

chegewara

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2009, 04:01:18 PM »
you understood his point because you were the only one that wasn't in reacro...and we in reacro know how hard we worked to do what we did. I know that I used 48 AP per day for a month to reach 400 CP in tier 3...and with a lot of help from my guild...so it wasn't as easy as it seems

i know how hard all you work. few weeks ago i though you are"cheating" and programmers help you to reach pionts in crafting. i have had 2 invitations to reacro, 1 official and 1 not. i dont play in reacro now cause i think this guild is too strong. and thats great cause this shown there still game is unbalanced. we all try to do best we can, and i can calculate. i like it but some ppl dont want me to calculate. ok, i will be calculate for myself.
i want say you how many respect i have for all reacro members. i think this is perfect or almost perfect guild and i camn only wish more guilds like this when full version start 8)

Offline isolde

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2009, 04:06:52 PM »
you understood his point because you were the only one that wasn't in reacro...and we in reacro know how hard we worked to do what we did. I know that I used 48 AP per day for a month to reach 400 CP in tier 3...and with a lot of help from my guild...so it wasn't as easy as it seems

And I know I used a lot of AP to mine and begged and whined and did everything so that our crafters WILL be the best. You will find that level of dedication ...not so often. But I will gladly prove everyone who thinks that automated heroes can provide information about how much time it needs - to talk to 30 people in a guild, tell them how the game works, how they should develop, give them equipment, advice, demand resources - do automated heroes do THAT ?

No, only people who run well-organized guilds to that ! Automated heroes get stuff for free , so they dont feel the frustration of missing 20 AP when you mine 40 AP silver. You can "track my progress " but you can never understand what the progress cost me. So I honestly dont believe that anyone who has not played the game seriously has a clue where the balance lies. You need to play the game seriously to see how it works - to play from the position of a person who strives to be the best and not like a bot. Then you will see how easy it is and where the balance lies - and how much effort does success cost. Everything else - its just calculations and guess on your part... its not the real deal .

Offline thomason

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2009, 04:20:20 PM »
And I know I used a lot of AP to mine and begged and whined and did everything so that our crafters WILL be the best. You will find that level of dedication ...not so often. But I will gladly prove everyone who thinks that automated heroes can provide information about how much time it needs - to talk to 30 people in a guild, tell them how the game works, how they should develop, give them equipment, advice, demand resources - do automated heroes do THAT ?

No, only people who run well-organized guilds to that ! Automated heroes get stuff for free , so they dont feel the frustration of missing 20 AP when you mine 40 AP silver. You can "track my progress " but you can never understand what the progress cost me. So I honestly dont believe that anyone who has not played the game seriously has a clue where the balance lies. You need to play the game seriously to see how it works - to play from the position of a person who strives to be the best and not like a bot. Then you will see how easy it is and where the balance lies - and how much effort does success cost. Everything else - its just calculations and guess on your part... its not the real deal .

I think that the main problem of the game is too easy getting of free diamonds. You craft and sell for diamonds. Look at the beta, how many people sell there goods for diamonds... For the best players this is the main motor of being even better. You sell for diamonds and You use it for extra AP points..24AP base + 24AP from diamonds. That is two times faster game than normal....And the players that dont sell the goods for diamonds or dont buy them for real money? they are developing normal or even slower.
Look at the alfa realm. There You dont develop so fast because You cant sell items for diamonds. Of course there is some stuff for diamonds, but nobody buys it (no players). On beta realm there are plenty more of players and full of diamonds.
My point is that the monsters are now well balanced, the crafting is in my opinion ok, but the problem lays in the diamonds, which you transform in to 24AP each day. Some players on beta have earned during two months play about 500-1000 of diamonds or even more... That is free premium and free 24 AP...
On alfa everything cost...and diamonds are more valuable...than on beta.

look at this.
1. player that dont uses diamonds -> no premium -> each move cost 2 AP, two time slower travelling -> slower gaining of points
2. player who crafts on realm with many players -> free premium -> extra points from diamonds, faster travelling, everything cost 1 AP -> too fast gaining of points (faster than creating of new locations)...

I'm now controlling some players on alfa and some of them are without premium, some are using diamonds from "testing premium". My account uses diamonds that I bought from real money and I know what is the value of each of 1 diamond.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 04:36:27 PM by thomason »

Offline radooo

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2009, 04:53:06 PM »
thomason...do you think that was easy to reach there? We invested a lot of diamonds to get there...shouldn't we get something for that? And to get a legendary item for 15-20 diamonds when in shops some worse items may cost 40k gold or gold and 40 diamonds I guess it worths 8)

Offline thomason

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Re: ok, seriously now...
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2009, 04:57:53 PM »
thomason...do you think that was easy to reach there? We invested a lot of diamonds to get there...shouldn't we get something for that? And to get a legendary item for 15-20 diamonds when in shops some worse items may cost 40k gold or gold and 40 diamonds I guess it worths 8)

Yes...but remember that some players have transfered there "testing premium" to beta realm.
I know that there is plenty work, but in additional You receive diamonds which you use for fighting or for crafting...
I think if we are talking about major problem in the game, this is... Very big differents in playing on non premium accounts and premium accounts...and even bigger if we sell the stuff for diamonds...  - not the monsters anymore