topic locked???

[andy_eu]

http://forum.imperialhero.org/int/index.php?topic=4643.0

Maybe I didn't explain myself right, but closing the topic is really not OK.  I'll try it her again.

I started to craft 50 leather.  I got bonus 26. Isn't it normal that I get 26 CP??  I know for sure I got this bonuses some time ago before I stopped crafting leather.  I am convinced it is a bug(if no changes were made) and I expect a good explanation if it is not.

[maeof]

Answering about locked topic: Maybe, they thought that the question is answered, and they close it, so nobody can't spam it.

[Cuorion]

What Geomatic told you pretty accurately on the old topic is that you earn no bonus crafting points for x2 (rare) crafts when you've got 374 crafting points but you only earn a bonus for x3 (legendary) crafts.

-You got the 3x bonus 5 times (which gives you 5 points, and an extra 10 leathers)
-You got the 2x bonus 16 times (which gives you zero points at your level, and an extra 16 leathers).

[andy_eu]

And I asked why is that....cause bonus points were gained in the past for x2 bonuses as well.

[Cuorion]

It is quite clearly stated in F.A.Q. and its last edit was in 30-11-2009. I don't personally know if it was otherwise before that.

After reaching 200 crafting points, only the crafting of rare items (those which possess a bonus) grants additional crafting points. After reaching 300 crafting points in a particular profession - only the crafted legendary items (those which have 2 modifiers) give CP. After reaching 400 points, the crafter can make epic items (only after tier 2) and crafting items with any kind of bonus stops giving crafting points.

The quote above refers to primary occupations but same principles exist on secondary as well (rare -> x2, legendary -> x3).

[Geomaticus]

The topic was locked because the question was answered. If you wanted the thread re-openned for further discussion, you could simply PM me or another Mod - which you did, but still you started another thread, 6 minutes after sending the PM. This was not necessary. Please be more patient.

Regarding your Crafting points, you recieved all the points that you were supposed to get. There is no bug. You only receive crafting points after 300 when you get the 3x bonus.
As Cuorion mentioned, this information is listed in the FAQ. Please refer to the reference materials provided before posting a bug.
http://forum.imperialhero.org/int/index.php?topic=1974.0

I hope that helps.

[andy_eu]

It is quite clearly stated in F.A.Q. and its last edit was in 30-11-2009. I don't personally know if it was otherwise before that.

The quote above refers to primary occupations but same principles exist on secondary as well (rare -> x2, legendary -> x3).

Really??

[andy_eu]

It seems my english isn't that good, cause you don't really understand. I know what happened some months ago and that's why I asked.

But did you play back then to know for sure what was happening?? ....I am not interested in an answer. 

Topic locked.

[isolde]

Well, I will unlock the topic simply to clarify a few things

1. Andy has absolute right regarding how crafting points in tanning used to count ! As I happened to advance at least 2 or 3 heroes in tanning I know very well that you used to get crafting points no matter whether its 2x or 3x - you were getting the points based on the extra amount of leather you crafted. Just like andy explained - you were getting 26 CP extra for the amount of "critical" leather.

2. As a happened to be the person who wrote the F.A.Q. I can wholeheartedly tell you that the part you are quoting refers only to primary professions. Things in secondary professions were quite a bit different before and even different now after a few changes.

3. I have myself tested to see if indeed some changes in tanning are implemented and after crafting with a hero who had 352 CP in tier 4. I crafted 25 very heavy leather with X8 multiplier. For some reason, after the start of crafting, his CP changed to 344. After crafting immediately, this is the final report :

Craft quantity: 25
Crafting Time Multiplier: 4
Critical craft x2: 5 Times
Critical craft x3: 3 Times
Total quantity crafted: 36

Now, the hero has 355 CP in tier 5. To me at least, several things are evident from this and Andy's report :

1. There was obviously an unannounced change or bug fix or whatever you want to call it in the principle on which the crafting proficiency was calculated for tanners. Nowadays, if obviously gives you only the CP from the critical crafts achieved in the respective X2 or X3. IT WAS NOT like that before.

2. What I find funny is that you can even tell it was different before. A common visual bug that existed and still exists (when crafting resources and items) is that after you start crafting, it automatically takes out from your current CP, the CP you will actually gain when crafting this item or resources ! After the crafting is done, its all back to normal and adds the CP correctly to those you had before. BUT you can see from the example I gave - this crafter had 352 CP and went back to 344 - so lost 8 CP. WHY if he gained only 3 from crafting the X3 critical leather ? Its very simple Because before this unannounced change, this crafter would receive 8 CP - 3 from the X3 and 5 from the X2, so this small reminder of how the CP were calculated still remains to prove mine and Andy's memories

3. I personally believe it was a valid question. Something was changed in the game, nothing was said about it. Its natural for people to wonder.

[Cuorion]

Well, since this topic was unlocked I guess I have enough time to share my thoughts. First of all, I think every single question asked is valid, even if the answer exists in the most visible of places, 'cause there are people that are not exactly comfortable with the use of forums and don't know where to search. After all, we are here to show people the right direction or give the right answer (if we know it). Furthermore, I know you wrote the F.A.Q. because it was the first thing I read in this forum, since I am quite a new player. I personally don't know how things were some time ago, but I know how they are now. To me, tanning seems to work the way armorsmith does (my professions). Since there is a moderator (Geomaticus) that can regenerate the full crafting report by the line "I have put my hero to make some leather(50) and I received as a bonus 26." means to me he quite of knows what he's typing. What I didn't like about the whole story was andy's attitude. There are some people here that look for ways to help you, you are told like 3-4 times that it is not a bug but a FIX and still you open a new topic and talk ironically* to people that tried to help you.

*EDIT: Previously stated insults are deleted and are taken as reconsidered.

[radooo]

There are some people here that look for ways to help you, you are told like 3-4 times that it is not a bug but a FIX and still you open a new topic, you talk ironically and finally you call noobs and sorry the people that tried to help you.

Where did geomaticus say it was a FIX??? And Andy is not a noob, he actually knows more things than you so if he asks a question then he has good reasons. In the topic geomaticus closed Andy didn't get a clear answer so he opened another thread...Not to mention that what was written in FAQ is about primary professions...but I'm only a retired man

[Geomaticus]

Radoo, I think you might have misunderstood. Cuorion did not insult Andy - he was referring to something that Andy had said in another thread, where Andy called someone's guild a 'noob guild'.

Andy's question was treated with respect by me and Cuorion and answered in a timely manner. His question wasn't treated with disrespect in any way.

That being said, there is no need for you to say whether anyone 'knows more than someone else'. Andy's question was posted on an open forum and statements like that serve only to deter others in the IH community from contributing.

Also, I closed the thread because I thought that the question asked was clearly answered. If he wanted the thread re-opened, he could have asked me or any other mod. I believe that would have been the proper way to handle it.

[Cuorion]

First of all I would like to make it clear that I called no-one a noob or anything similar. I was just referring to an insulting deleted post by Andy (which was made after isolde's post) and since it was deleted (obviously reconsidered) I think I can edit mine too.

On topic now, "fix" may has been a wrong word to use. "Changed" maybe? And when exactly would Andy's question be considered answered? When a player older than him came and typed "Yes it was that way and now it is not"? I am 100% sure Andy knows a ton of stuff more than me but such stuff obviously change all the time and being around for more time does not give you the right of being insulting.

Now, regarding my reference to isolde's F.A.Q., my only source of information about how thinks work (or worked before a not-yet-announced change) on the matter in question is the following:

4.  When will I be able to craft rare items ?

In the beginning, crafting every item gives a certain number of crafting points and the hero can craft only normal items without any additional bonuses. After reaching 200 crafting points (CP), he has the chance to make a "rare item" - an item with 1 modifier or bonus to a particular attribute (for example, +4 dexterity). After successfully crafting a rare item, the system determines based on random principle what bonus it will have and how big the bonus will be. If the crafted item already has a bonus (from a recipe with a precious gem for example), then when a rare item is crafted the bonus has a chance to stack on top of the already existing one.

5. I have reached 200 crafting points and the crafting of items does not give me any more CP. Why ?

After reaching 200 crafting points, only the crafting of rare items (those which possess a bonus) grants additional crafting points. After reaching 300 crafting points in a particular profession - only the crafted legendary items (those which have 2 modifiers) give CP. After reaching 400 points, the crafter can make epic items (only after tier 2) and crafting items with any kind of bonus stops giving crafting points.

[...]

9.  What is the purpose of the crafting time multiplier (CTM)? 

During the processing of resources, the time for crafting can be increased up to 8 times by using the crafting time multiplier, which increases the chance for getting critical (additional) quantities (2x, 3x, etc.). This applies only to the processing of hides and precious genes - no crafting time multiplier exists for the processing of wood and ores. Instead of the CTM, after reaching 100, 200, etc crafting points as a carpenter or miner, the quantity of wood and ores which the hero can gather by using 1 AP is increased. (for example, with 200 CP - the hero can mine 2-6 coal per 1 AP instead of 2-4 coal before). 

I have bolded some phrases for easier reference. While it is not stated that primary and secondary occupations work the same way, it is not stated otherwise as well. Furthermore, the use of "chance of rare/critical item/quantities" can help the reader make a connection between the two kinds of crafts. And since tanning does not give a CTM bar before 200 CP the connection becomes even stronger. And even if it was not working that way in the past, it is somewhat difficult to "guess" the difference when all seems allright with what you understood (which, by the way, is what is actually happening right now).

You say it is not a fix but can you clarify why it was not a bug in the first place? (I searched all the announcements in "news" and found no references in either one of the cases)

[isolde]

I am gonna lock this topic again  Otherwise we are going to have a moderator and trusted members war in it which is just plain silly

I am not saying that me (and andy and radooo) playing from the first day of alpha gives us the right to know everything. So many things have changed, its hard for me to even remember. I think in that respect we all will stay noobs and one step behind the programmers. I dont think anyone needs to get insulted about such words

Now, regarding the huge dilemma of leather crafting - what can I say ! I dont personally think its a bug fix, it just one of the usual things - something is changed, nothing is said. I wouldnt be surprised, maybe Andy was a bit pissed off which I can always understand but I dont think a wonderful, generous man like him could ever be mean

With this said, I hope everybody can calm down, have a group hug and I am going to translate even another section of my slightly outdated manual in honor of Cuorion and the rest of the dedicated troopers who answer questions. Now I shall leave you with the wise words of the famous Greek pholosopher Andreas, dear to many of our hearts, who used to jump on one foot and say : Noob, noob, spam, spam !"  (It is General Spam, after all !)