Suggestion

[grumpypickle]

There is a quirk in this game that now matter how I look at it, I cannot understand the logic of it. When you go to crafting shops in Tier 3 provinces, they carry Tier 4 crafting tools. So if you buy a crafting tool in a Tier 3 province and you are a Tier 3 player, you can't use the tool. The crazy part is that there are no differences in crafting tools by level that I can determine. For example, if a Tier 4 Hero uses a Tier 2 crafting tool, he gets the same bonus as a Tier 4 tool. Why even have Tier levels of crafting tools? It just frustrates a player who shells out 50 Diamonds for a tool in their province that they can't even use.

[DMDM]

There is a shop that sells Tier 3 tools and recipes in Barren Rocks. The rest of the two shops (Great Winds and Grunar) sell indeed only Tier 4 tools and recipes but then again those two are mixed Tier3/4 towns as far as armor/weapon/general store goes. If you indeed bought the Tier 4 tool for 50 diamonds I am sure you can get that refunded and buy the correct tool.
On the other hand I myself can't understand either why there are Tier 2-5 legendary tools which give the same ammount of bonus. Maybe the bonus used to be different ? Don't know. Would have made sense if the bonus would go only downwards, i.e. you would get the bonus for Tier 2 using a Tier 5 hammer but it wouldn't work go the other way around.
Anyways, you should ask for a refund and buy the correct tool.

[Cuorion]

Actually I don't think a refund is feasible. The fact that this tool was not for your tier was right there and it was you who proceeded with the purchase. You should also know from normal tools that higher tiers don't work for lower tier characters. If I were you I would ask for a higher tier crafter of your profession (guild member maybe) to buy a low tier tool the next time he needs one so you can trade them.

[Crassus]

If I were you I would ask for a higher tier crafter of your profession (guild member maybe) to buy a low tier tool the next time he needs one so you can trade them.

I agree with it...

[grumpypickle]

I think you are missing my point. 1) if there is no benefit or limitation on a Tier 4 player using a Tier 2 tool, why even have Tiered tools? I can buy and use Tier 4 health and spirit potions as a Tier 3 player. They cost the same, the do the same thing. Why keep something that is obviously flawed? It is absolutely illogical. 2) why would you sell Tier 4 tools in 2 of the three crafting store that open up to Tier 3 players? There is just no reason; a developer is only creating a situation that will aggravate a player. I am only offering a suggestion to limit frustration for players. I can figure out what to do with the tool in the interim, that is not the problem.

[Cuorion]

It is already stated in here that shops and healers in each province are not supposed to be the same tier as the province itself. I would find the topic and give you the link but I'm posting via my phone right now and I cannot copy-paste from it. When I use a PC I'll do it. Anyway, back in topic. I guess you already know that a given tier's building only offers services of the same tier. And the only non-same tier services a player can use are health and spirit potions. The rest of the consumeable items (stat potions, ressurection potions, even weapons and armor) can be used by higher tier players but not by lower. This is the general rule. The health and spirit potions are the exceptions. And it also applies in crafting tools. Now if you've read Isolde's F.A.Q. you would be informed that each province only has some of the buildings' types. Some provinces also share more than one tier buildings, mainly because higher tier players lurk there for a number of reasons (mining, pvp in dangerous provinces, etc.). Anyway, it is how it is supposed to be, and if you are furious with it, remember it when you're one tier higher and you'll have to travel only 1 province to use the services you want except 5 or even more.

[DMDM]

Grumpy tried to make a point and it looks like it escaped you. His point being that there is absolutely no reason for special tools (30% and 50%) to have Tier requirement. They all give the same bonus regardless of tier. Having them tier-ed (I made up a word)  only leads to situations as the one he depicted, where players can make a mistake and get aggravated. I can understand if Tier 1-5 tools are a vestige of times long passed where they would probably give different bonuses or God knows what's the reason why 5 different tools do the same thing. In any case the tools should be normalized so the issue at hand won't occur anymore. It's a suggestion that would indeed make the game more enjoyable. Put it in the back burner if (and probably that's the case) there are more stringent issues to be dealt with.

[Judith]

We'll be looking at this the next week.

[Cuorion]

Just to make some things clear, Grumpy actually tried to make a couple of points, not just one. What to do with the tool that he couldn't use, a suggestion to make all buildings same tier with the province they are in and a suggestion to remove tiers from legendary tools. It is not that any of them escaped me. It's that I had a different opinion in the first too and informed him how things work and that they are supposed to work this way. I didn't mention the third one because there is nothing to say. It is a clear suggestion that does not find me opposed and to be honest I wouldn't mind either if it is changed or if it stays as is.

[grumpypickle]

Since it was my suggestion, I will speak for me if you don't mind since you are attributing things to me that I simply didn't say. If you read my post, I never asked for nor did I need any advice on what do with the tool. I am not an idiot; I can figure that out. My point was that I shouldn't have to. I also didn't ask that all buildings in the same province be of the same Tier. I just asked why that was the case. Your explanation makes sense but only in the version of the game wherein you couldn't travel instantly to any province. Now that you can, it just seems kind of silly.

Using the 'that is the way it is' defense is really not very productive when you are trying to improve the playability of the game. I am appreciative that the developers are constantly making changes and improving the product. I can see how the playability has improved immensely in the past few months. I am offering what I thought was a suggestion for an overlooked fix. A simple 'thank you very much we'll look into it' would suffice.

Thank you DMDMD, I think you understand where I am coming from. 

[Cuorion]

What exactly did I attribute to you that you didn't say?

1) I said you didn't know what to do with the tool you bought.

It just frustrates a player who shells out 50 Diamonds for a tool in their province that they can't even use.

2) I said you suggested it should be changed that buildings and provinces don't always share the same tier.

2) why would you sell Tier 4 tools in 2 of the three crafting store that open up to Tier 3 players? There is just no reason; a developer is only creating a situation that will aggravate a player. I am only offering a suggestion to limit frustration for players.

3) I said you suggested legendary tools should become free from tiers.

Why even have Tier levels of crafting tools?

Also to reply to some of your phrases...

Your explanation makes sense but only in the version of the game wherein you couldn't travel instantly to any province. Now that you can, it just seems kind of silly.

The only difference between "then" and "now" is the number of clicks you need to do to travel the empire. The time needed is pretty much the same.

Using the 'that is the way it is' defense is really not very productive when you are trying to improve the playability of the game.

This is not a kind of defense. It's a statement. When you come frustrated in the forums and make a post, don't think the same post was not posted before. When someone replies "that is the way it is" means the same suggestion was made before and was declined in the way I tell you. In our example, what you find "silly", "frustrating" and "better to change to make the game better" is actually one of the tips of the day, which means it is a feature with a lot of thought behind it. It's not an "overlooked fix" and that's exactly what I mean when I say "that is the way it is".

By the way, the next time you make a suggestion, make sure to include a line like "so my suggestion is this" instead of just asking questions that you don't even want to be answered.

[grumpypickle]

Wow, you are good. Do you drive away all diamond-buying players you interact with or just me?

This has clearly been a waste of time, a mistake I won't make again.

[Judith]

Nobody is trying to drive you away.
Since we, the whole IH staff follow orders - which are not yours or any player's, well, 'that is the way it is'.
That doesn't mean we're not looking at your suggestions, complains etc. But whatever we change/do there will be always people who don't like it.
Recently we released a whole new version of this game! That doesn't mean we're done with it, sitting all day with popcorn, enjoying your ranting.
As I said above.. The Crafting tools will be under our concern the next week.

[DMDM]

 I'll jump on the water wagon and say that honestly, as I see it, mods,admins and community managers should forward the pertinent,worthy suggestions and disregard the rest. I myself been talked down, so to put it, and I can't say I was thrilled. Is one thing to refuse or rebut a suggestion and another to basically pick fights with players or talk down to them, even if point by point. The people "working" for IH shouldn't make points or set things straight. They should either moderate (whatever that implies) or provide info where that is asked. Short and clear. Don't get me wrong, not everything I asked was answered with the behind, far from it.
  I do not expect a "yes Sir, customer Sir, I'll do your bidding since you put food on my table for my hungry kids" but I don't expect a "hell no coz I don't wanna" either. You can ascertain that neither me or Grumpy would spam asking for when our awesome suggestions will be implemented so I don't see a point in following the discussion further than "We'll be looking at this the next week". Even plain ignoring the suggestion would beat what Curion or Oton did. That will only chase away people like me or Grumpy off forums (and game) eventually.
 On the other hand you might love the "Maek game isy cuz is to hard !" kind of suggestions more than the ones that make sense or are written in proper english. I don't know. I'm just saying.

P.S.

Since the topic is named "Suggestion" I don't think this would be totally off-topic. How about changing the text for the "Merchant Order"
point "3. Rare items, generated in NPC shops, are increased with 2" with "3. Rare items buy-able with gold+diamonds , generated in NPC shops, are increased with 2" or even remove it. That's hardly a perk for anyone sane.

P.P.S.

Oh and the shops won't reset when you activate the Order. In the sense that you might lose another (up to) 24 hours to reset. Which basically will make LOSE A WHOLE DAY OMG I BEEN SHAFTED.

[Cuorion]

Well, if spending time to reply to someone's concerns equals driving them away, yes I do this to all players I interact with. Not just diamond buyers. It does make me sad though that I am trying to explain some things to both of you and you recieve this as a form of attack. You should understand that when you make a suggestion, it is our job to discuss it with you, point you in some directions that you might have missed and show you that what you write is actually read by someone. We are too players you know. We too want the best for this game. And even if there are dislikes, it doesn't mean your suggestion will not reach the table. There is no need, no point to recieve any kind of discussion as a controversy. The two of up who disagree in this topic will surely agree on some else. And if this interaction could be labeled as anything, it would definitely not be "a waste of time".

P.S.: I won't answer about Oton's reaction to your matter DMDM, but what I did actually was moderating. Regardless of what you suggested, you know very well you are supposed to be polite. If you are not, you are subject to banning.